24.04.1997

Self-determination on election agenda

Andy MacLean interviewed Mary Ward, Communist Party parliamentary candidate for the Scottish Socialist Alliance in Dundee West

What kind of impact has the Scottish Socialist Alliance been making across Scotland in this election campaign?

The importance of the Alliance standing in the election is that it is helping to break people from the politics of the bourgeois parties - the policies of the Labour Party and the Scottish National Party, who basically have the same message: one with a nationalist tinge, one with a social democratic tinge, but essentially they are both parties of capitalism. The SSA has a socialist programme and is made up of revolutionary and left organisations and individuals.

It has built up some respect and a reputation in the areas of Scotland where it has activists. It is only right that in a general election, at a time of heightened political awareness, people have the opportunity to vote for an alternative to Labour and the SNP, an alternative that puts the working class at the top of the political agenda.

What has been the response from the people of Dundee to your campaign?

We have been inundated by folk who want to talk politics, who want to discuss the issues and who are only too well aware that the prospect of a Labour government under Tony Blair will not be that much different from what they have experienced over the last 18 years. Yet there is still this innate drive to get the Tories out any cost. So people will vote Labour without any enthusiasm or deep conviction, without any faith in the party or the leader.

The Alliance on the other hand has been met with respect amongst the people who we have canvassed. There has been a great deal of discussion and debate. Some people have wanted to talk about how the Alliance was formed, others discuss issues like the national question or the cuts or the minimum wage, and I think they genuinely see the SSA as a growing organisation.

Were this to be a local council election I have no doubt that the Alliance would be taking seats: such is the despondency with the way Labour and SNP councils have behaved across Scotland in making cuts. When people witness daily on TV and in the newspapers this diet of sleaze, soundbite and froth with little substance fed them by the mainstream parties, then very often they respond with ‘What’s the difference?’

However, our emphasis in campaigning has been to point out that our candidates are not political careerists and the foundations of our policies and manifesto must be to put the interests of the working class over the interests of big business and the bosses.

We have been out on the streets canvassing and talking to people on their estates and in the shopping centres. The bourgeois media is virtually ignoring the SSA.

What has been your experience of working with Scottish Militant Labour as part of the SSA’s campaign in Dundee West?

I have a lot of respect for the comrades in SML, particularly the ones we have been working closely with. There is no doubt they have done a tremendous amount of work and actually rooted themselves in working class areas.

Of all the seats in Scotland where the SSA is standing I would say that Dundee West is characterised by being the one where two distinct political organisations, both with separate programmes, have been working together in a united campaign. I said right at the very start of the campaign when I was speaking to a meeting of SML comrades that it was not going to be easy, that there would be tensions - and some of these tensions have come to the fore. In the Communist Party, for example, we have a position of an active boycott of Blair’s two-question referendum, whereas SML take the majority view within the SSA and will support a double ‘yes’ vote. At the start of the campaign we reached an agreement locally with SML that it was important that organisations within the SSA should be able to produce and distribute their own literature during the campaign. In line with that agreement we have produced a leaflet supporting an active boycott of Blair’s rigged referendum and that has caused some dissent amongst SML supporters. They think it will confuse the voters. I think they are wrong. We are not a political party: we are an alliance, and while we are involved in this political activity what is essential is that we have openness of debate and ideas. SML need to learn that differences need to be argued out in front of the working class and not behind closed doors, because working class people are not stupid: they do not expect everyone within an organisation to hold identical views; they do not expect everyone to be clones. I hope SML members will take up the debate and put forward their point of view through the pages of the Weekly Worker and, more importantly perhaps, because the pages of the Weekly Worker are well known for their polemic, within the pages of their own paper, Scottish Socialist Voice.

There are clearly areas where SML are not a monolithic force, where they do not all speak with one voice. A good example of this was the recent call in SSV to vote Labour in the Tory marginal seats: specifically Ayr and Stirling. We know from SML comrades in Dundee that that is not SML policy. In fact Philip Stott in a recent interview in Weekly Worker (April 10) expressed his disagreement with this. Yet all we have seen in SSV is a letter from the right wing advocating support for the Labour Party in more than just marginal seats. I would like to see SSV opened up. I think it would be good for SML, good for the left and good for the working class movement in Scotland.

What is the impact of the national question on Scottish politics during this election?

The national question is the backdrop against which the whole of Scottish politics takes place. It is taken as read that the national question is there. It is clearly something that is at the back of people’s minds the whole time, particularly as the constitutional question has been put on the agenda on a Britain-wide basis. That makes this election different to others that have taken place in recent times. For a number of years the national question has been important in Scotland, but it has now become a constitutional question, because Blair and Major have made it an issue for the whole of Britain.

Due to their opportunist compromise on the Scottish parliament, as well as their desperation to appeal to the middle classes, this question has caused severe problems for the Labour Party in Scotland. It is becoming a standing joke that every time Blair steps over the border he says something even more ridiculous about their version of Scottish devolution - his ‘parish council’ gaffe, his confusion over taxation and sovereignty. It is an issue that is not going to be solved by the general election. It is certainly not going to be solved by the referendum. The national question is one that the left must seek to intervene in at the highest level and with the sharpest focus. More and more people are turning towards nationalism because they perceive it as a more revolutionary way forward, the most radical of options on offer.

The real challenge to the left is to take the lead in this struggle, to fight for the democratic demands within the national movement, but to fight against the nationalism that will grow unless these democratic demands are won.

What is the way to resolve these democratic demands?

The first thing that is absolutely essential is to achieve genuine self-determination for a people who clearly want it. Anything less will mean the growth of nationalism. I don’t think that’s a paradox. Only by giving the fullest democratic rights to people will you be able to fight against this nationalism, because otherwise the feelings of subjugation will grow. It can only be defeated by the fullest democracy. When that is gained then the people have the right to determine their relationship with the other parts of Britain, Europe and the rest of the world.

The position of the Communist Party is to fight for a federal republic of Scotland, England and Wales and we should use the battleground of the national question to challenge the constitutional monarchy we live under. Speaking to people on the doorstep, it is clear that many do not want the SNP’s ‘independence in Europe’, - a capitalist, independent Scotland with a ‘people’s monarchy’. Immediately you mention the monarchy they say they don’t want that and a lot are actually quite surprised that the SNP want to retain the monarchy. So the republican feeling is growing and is there to be tapped in on.

The national question is not just a question that affects the people of Scotland, but must become an issue for the working class throughout Britain. I get very angry that left organisations south of the border wash their hands of the question and say it is nothing to do with us - let’s leave it to people in Scotland. Of course it’s something to do with them. Surely they should be challenging the constitutional monarchy that rules them as well. The working class across Britain should be making a concerted challenge to the British state. If we are communists, revolutionaries, Marxists, then that is what our job is; that’s what we are here for.

What about Labour’s proposals to address the democratic deficit?

What Blair has on offer is a Mickey Mouse parliament for Scotland. He says that under Labour control it won’t even be able to raise taxes for the first five years. If it is to have any status or relevance then it should be able to tax the rich and big business. Otherwise what is it we’re getting - a glorified grand committee? I don’t want to take Blair’s parish council comments out of context like some others have done, but what he does reveal is his lack of understanding of what true democracy means. The Claim of Right of Scotland, which the Labour Party were signatories to, said that sovereignty should lie with the people. I believe that sovereignty should rest with the people, not with the crown nor a bourgeois parliament. I see the Claim of Right as expressing the need for the people to take control.

What attitude should we take to Blair’s referendum?

We must campaign for an active boycott. We must try as far as our resources allow to create a mass movement that says ‘self-determination - nothing less!’ The SSA’s founding statement is committed to fighting for genuine self-determination and I am happy to stick by that. The Campaign for Genuine Self-Determination, which argues for a boycott of Labour’s referendum as it stands, has started to pick up support amongst SSA members and also those outside the SSA. There is a day school, organised by Edinburgh SSA after the general election, on the national question in Scotland and Ireland, where the CPGB will be speaking. We will also have a fringe meeting at the SSA conference in June and we hope that we will be able to instigate debates in major towns and cities across Scotland, and other parts of Britain for that matter.

Why should people settle for the pittance that is on offer from the Labour Party? Let’s build a campaign that fights for what is necessary to achieve genuine self-determination.