24.04.1997

Non-sectarian alternative

Both the Socialist Party and the Socialist Labour Party are contesting Leeds Central at the general election. Peter Manson spoke to Chris Hill, the SP’s candidate

How has the campaign been going?

It has been going well, not so much from the point of view of accumulating huge numbers of votes - we don’t expect that - but from the point of view of winning people to socialism and recruiting them to the Socialist Party.

What has surprised me is that it seems clear that the winner in Leeds Central will be the non-voter, including those not registered. Loyalty to Labour is extremely thin. A lot of people are saying, ‘Let’s get rid of the Tories, then we’ll look at you lot.’ Our belief in the possibility of what we will be able to do under Labour has been reinforced. Bur that depends on how the left organises, of course.

Were there any attempts to avoid both yourselves and the SLP contesting the seat?

Well, I despair of the SLP’s sectarianism. I thought we had an agreement, but then Arthur Scargill comes up here and tells them to choose three seats. Two of them are safe Tory constituencies and the third is Leeds Central where we are standing. Yet they have left three safe Labour seats uncontested. Their sole achievement could be to let the Tories in.

Previously we had written to the local SLP branch and at one point the branch president told us: “I’ve instructed the secretary to bin any further correspondence from you.” Then those members who disagreed with standing against us brought it up and I understand it was agreed in the branch that they would not oppose us. That was before Arthur Scargill appeared.

You seem concerned at the possibility of letting in the Tories.

Yes. If we had the resources to stand in every constituency, we would do. But it is still important to recognise that workers in general want to get rid of the Tories. I have no problem with backing that idea. Round the margins there is no doubt that Labour is better than the Tories.

But the Socialist Party is saying that New Labour is now a bourgeois capitalist party. Isn’t it wrong in principle to choose the ‘lesser evil’?

It’s not a principle to say, ‘Vote Labour’. I would never give as a slogan, ‘Vote Labour’ or ‘Vote Liberal’. I’m just giving my personal opinion.

What do you understand by socialism?

I think it is common ownership in all its meanings. It’s people’s control over all aspects of their lives and full democratisation.

Can it be achieved in one country or does it have to be international?

It has to be international. There has to be a recognition that the initial push is likely to be on a European basis, but it must spread further, and that excludes a ‘British’ socialism. Socialism must be economically viable - it is not possible in one country.

The Socialist Party has a policy for the nationalisation of the 150 biggest companies in Britain with the implication that that would produce socialism. That seems to contradict what you are saying.

You have to put forward a root for your own sphere. Public ownership would break the power base of the capitalist class, but it would certainly not be socialism. That will come as part of a continuing struggle that would spread internationally. That’s why Europe is so important. As the European economies integrate and disintegrate - more and more, so the struggles are tied in together more closely. And the slogans for public ownership will also be echoed throughout.

In the Leeds area there are a large number of immigrants, especially from Asia. Have you been calling for the ending of immigration controls, for open borders?

We have concentrated on scrapping the Asylum Bill and so on. I find this a difficult question. It is one thing saying ‘non-racist immigration controls’, bur really that’s just a sop. Yet in a disintegrating capitalist world, where starvation is rampant, I can’t honestly say that people should be able to live where they want. But I haven’t really thought my way through this.

How do you see the left moving forward?

The left should build their organisations wherever they exist. Socialist alliances have to be formed. We need flexibility - organisational, not political - and a non-sectarian attitude. We must organise the revolutionaries.

What about the Party, based on democratic centralism. How do you see that coming about?

We can’t jump stages - we have to learn to work together. We need to move rapidly to the organisation of a workers’ party within four or five years. It’s not just a distant goal. We need to make a start right after the election. The Scottish Socialist Alliance should be our model.